"The greatest enemy to the movement of Christ is Christianity"
this quote is by a guy named Erwin Mcmanus who has a sweet action ministry down in LA called Mosaic. anyways, this guy has balls.
and though this is a huge generalized comment and quite offensive...i can't help but agree with him. and it also breaks my heart, because it is so true.
we go around all day long "preaching" the gospel in people's faces telling them that if they only accept this message that their lives will be changed forever better and everything in their life will be taken care of...but, as I look around, Christians go through the same shit that everyone else does...and well, a lot people say, well, they handle it better, and they see the good in it...well that's a bunch of bullshit too...
you know what drives me crazy...christians thinking that they are different or better than everyone else...
i think it stems from what could be one of the greatest theological "oops" in history. something that happened when constantine legalized christianity in 318 where it became the good and right belief instead of this grassroots revolutionary, ARE ALL WELCOME, belief. before 318 it was all about survival and love and community and truth and each other, and then after, when money got involved, it turned to all about rules, power, and control. and i don't think that it's changed since...
we have this idea that if you're not a christian, you are inferior, less than, not "one of us"...that you are "evil"... and most people will say, nahhh, i don't believe that...but think again...think about how you term people who don't believe what you believe...think about how many of your friends are not christians, and how we term them as "non-believers"...think about how in every way, we as christians and christianity have dug a cavern between what is "christian" and what is "secular", and the only bridge across, the only bridge to the "good life", to "goodness", to "joy", to "perfection", is what we have deemed as "conversion". what the hell is "conversion" anyway? (i am not trying to discount anyone's personal spiritual encounter, just give me a second)
yes, we all have one or many points where we make decisions and commitments to do something different or believe something different. BUT, how different and better is your life since your "conversion"....honestly? honestly? have we promised an all inclusive trip to hawaii but given a one day pass to six flags?...aren't you still lonely? aren't you still bored? aren't you still angry? aren't you still confused? aren't you still human? is your life really any different than any other person on this earth? maybe you don't know because you don't know anybody deeply or close that doesn't believe?
that's because we have taken the message "be not of this world" to mean that we should not have any connection with anything that isn't "christian". well, after a while of living the separated life, i got bored. and lonely, depressed, left out, cold, judgemental, cynical, and lonely, and bored. and so i started thinking, and hearing, maybe this isn't the way it's supposed to be? maybe this separation is bad? maybe there's something i don't understand? maybe there's something that all of us have misunderstood for a very long time?
what do you believe happened when Jesus died? what do you think happened when he broke down the gates of hell? how do you take his words, "I died so that all may have life and may be saved, redeemed"?
what if its not so exclusive as we've always thought it to be? what if the worst sin in christianity, is not homosexuality or abortion, but what if its' just believing that we are different and better than everyone else? believing that we should separate ourselves?
if i remember right, it's His job to separate the sheep and the goats?
you know what i hear first and most of all when i talk to nonbelievers about Christianity? nothing...that's because i never have shut up and quit judging them to listen to one word...
we have built walls around our lives in order to keep us out of this "world". if it's not "christian", it's crap.
it is here where this type of "Christianity" is killing the movement of Christ.
so what is "christianity" anyways? who came up with this word? who's idea was it to stop just telling people about Jesus? and instead start trying to convert the world to christianity? what if you love Christ and love the world and love others, but hate Christianity?
has christianity become the modern day sanhedrin? have we all become little pharisees?
responses....
(i've been reading this book call the Irresistible Revolution by a guy named Shane Claiborne...it's really good and straight forward, and unlike me, he takes his anger and does good things with it. i'm still stuck in the just bitching phase...so forgive me for my bluntness)
and though this is a huge generalized comment and quite offensive...i can't help but agree with him. and it also breaks my heart, because it is so true.
we go around all day long "preaching" the gospel in people's faces telling them that if they only accept this message that their lives will be changed forever better and everything in their life will be taken care of...but, as I look around, Christians go through the same shit that everyone else does...and well, a lot people say, well, they handle it better, and they see the good in it...well that's a bunch of bullshit too...
you know what drives me crazy...christians thinking that they are different or better than everyone else...
i think it stems from what could be one of the greatest theological "oops" in history. something that happened when constantine legalized christianity in 318 where it became the good and right belief instead of this grassroots revolutionary, ARE ALL WELCOME, belief. before 318 it was all about survival and love and community and truth and each other, and then after, when money got involved, it turned to all about rules, power, and control. and i don't think that it's changed since...
we have this idea that if you're not a christian, you are inferior, less than, not "one of us"...that you are "evil"... and most people will say, nahhh, i don't believe that...but think again...think about how you term people who don't believe what you believe...think about how many of your friends are not christians, and how we term them as "non-believers"...think about how in every way, we as christians and christianity have dug a cavern between what is "christian" and what is "secular", and the only bridge across, the only bridge to the "good life", to "goodness", to "joy", to "perfection", is what we have deemed as "conversion". what the hell is "conversion" anyway? (i am not trying to discount anyone's personal spiritual encounter, just give me a second)
yes, we all have one or many points where we make decisions and commitments to do something different or believe something different. BUT, how different and better is your life since your "conversion"....honestly? honestly? have we promised an all inclusive trip to hawaii but given a one day pass to six flags?...aren't you still lonely? aren't you still bored? aren't you still angry? aren't you still confused? aren't you still human? is your life really any different than any other person on this earth? maybe you don't know because you don't know anybody deeply or close that doesn't believe?
that's because we have taken the message "be not of this world" to mean that we should not have any connection with anything that isn't "christian". well, after a while of living the separated life, i got bored. and lonely, depressed, left out, cold, judgemental, cynical, and lonely, and bored. and so i started thinking, and hearing, maybe this isn't the way it's supposed to be? maybe this separation is bad? maybe there's something i don't understand? maybe there's something that all of us have misunderstood for a very long time?
what do you believe happened when Jesus died? what do you think happened when he broke down the gates of hell? how do you take his words, "I died so that all may have life and may be saved, redeemed"?
what if its not so exclusive as we've always thought it to be? what if the worst sin in christianity, is not homosexuality or abortion, but what if its' just believing that we are different and better than everyone else? believing that we should separate ourselves?
if i remember right, it's His job to separate the sheep and the goats?
you know what i hear first and most of all when i talk to nonbelievers about Christianity? nothing...that's because i never have shut up and quit judging them to listen to one word...
we have built walls around our lives in order to keep us out of this "world". if it's not "christian", it's crap.
it is here where this type of "Christianity" is killing the movement of Christ.
so what is "christianity" anyways? who came up with this word? who's idea was it to stop just telling people about Jesus? and instead start trying to convert the world to christianity? what if you love Christ and love the world and love others, but hate Christianity?
has christianity become the modern day sanhedrin? have we all become little pharisees?
responses....
(i've been reading this book call the Irresistible Revolution by a guy named Shane Claiborne...it's really good and straight forward, and unlike me, he takes his anger and does good things with it. i'm still stuck in the just bitching phase...so forgive me for my bluntness)
posted by Mikey at 6:41 PM
5 Comments:
As long as there are followers of Christ there will be Christianity. Erwin is attempting to separate the movement of Christ from old Christianity but that is not possible unless you begin to compromise Christ. I think out of all the poor techniques the church has adopted nothing has been more of a turnoff to the world than living in obedience. Erwin is implying that it is people's fault that Christianity so far hasn't work but the reality is that it is because we live in a wicked world. If you believe what erwin says then you might almost have to question weather or not Christ used the best techniques when he walked the earth. Yes christians have made alot of mistakes but thats only given none believer an excuse to not face what it is that they just can't get pass, SIN. The greatest enemy to the movement of Christ is sin.
why would i have to question Christ's techniques? and how does not separating compromise Christ? and don't you still face SIN everyday? of course the greatest enemy to Christ is sin, but sin is the effect, what is the cause? and you can choose to look at the world as wicked, but i will not generalize the whole world, or deem it as such, but i see it as good at the heart tempted by evil on the outside. there is a difference?
The main difference between the movement of Christ and Christianity is not how christians relate to the world.
Why would you need to question Christ's techniques if you believe in erwins statement? Well because all of Christianity has been modeled around christ.
Erwin seems to believe that if christians can somehow just become more relevant to the world that sin would fail to exist.
Erwin is trying to usher in a "better way" of doing Christianity. The way he is doing it is by first trying to get people see how it has been flawed so far. Yes the statement seems cool and daring but it also has caused alot of confusion and Christ is not a God of confusion.
all of christianity has not been modeled after Christ. it has been man's attempt to model christ, but that does not make it perfect or "christlike" necessarily. that is a dangerous comment. it could assume that christianity is infallible.
have you read Mcmanus?
also, yes our God is not a god of confusion, BUT, how can you jump from a theory or thought or statement and connect that to God not being a God of confusion? what? so were not supposed to ever question anything? so we just believe past theology or whatever, without questioning because we don't want to cause confusion? i don't think so...
to truly love someone, i think you need to learn and dig and discover every inch of them, and truly and really believe it and choose it on your own...to just believe the past is lazy and doesn't require much risk or heart.
p.s. thank you for the conversation, but how'd you find my page?
2 Cor. 5:18 We've been given the ministry of reconciliation. We are Christ's ambassadors. As a "christian" I am to love and honor every human being. Can I see past their foul mouth? Can I see past the smell and dirt of the homeless and find the "gold" in them. Can I see the piece of God in them that our heavenly Father placed in there when He made them in His image? (Dear God let me see "them" with Your eyes.) "Christianity" is a great adventure of freedom and love and in an ever expanding family. We can choose a life of mediocrity and still slide into heaven. BUT wouldn't you like to honor the one who saved you and abandon all to find out the adventerous destiny that He has planned for you ? What if Moses and passed on his destiny? How about Abraham? Having read 3 of Mcmanus's books I personally feel that his main point is "CHRISTIANS GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND DO SOMETHING". I've been a "christian" since I was a kid but it didn't really change my life. But when I fell in love with Jesus and determined to make Him Lord and Savior over my life every part of me has changed. He has poured His grace and mercy into me and in response I cannot help but reach out to those around me. Christian and non-christian alike are effected by being around me because of Christ in me. Yes, sometimes it's hard to talk to the homeless person. Yes, you feel weird praying for a stranger to be healed and yes it down right sucks to leave your "perfect" job to move across the country because you know that's what God has for you. But you do it anyway because nothing is more precious than Jesus. Let's be bold! Let's be couregous! Let's love people radically so they know the freedom and relationship that can be had in Jesus.
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